Go Back   Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum > Technical > ECU / Mapping

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-05-2017, 21:44   #16
Cryptwalk
Moderator
 
Cryptwalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Manchester
Car: Cpp built Evo V1 Extreme No7 & a stroker red 7
My Car
Posts: 12,735
Send a message via MSN to Cryptwalk
Talking about boost control I've had a mare of late with the link. I believe there is a problem with closed loop boost control and link are in about bringing out a patch?

All I know is my boost was all over the show and my mappers been pulling his hair out. He's now changed it and wrote a full boost table from scratch which is now at last working faultlessly. I'm not technically minded like him but he explained it as being active boost control before and the ecu was trying to hit a boost level so threw a load of duty on and my car came i that quick it was like ****, less duty so it ended up overboosting and being very hit and miss.
Said it's now passive so just looks for the duty on the table at whatever revs and sticks that in. Time consuming for sure.

Love the G4 though, My car came with a power fc and wouldn't run quick enough. Since changing to the link I've seen improvements in every area.
Cryptwalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2017, 06:08   #17
Rampant
Profound thinker
 
Rampant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orbit pattern - Low block 3
Car: IX FQ-320: GT1s, COP, Rods, LinkG4+, MR lip & has the devil in it (& 996 C4S: exhaust)
My Car
Posts: 5,438
The thing about the Link boost control is you can't just ask it for an open loop (active feedback loop) without setting up the closed loop properly first.

You need to map the boost on closed loop (simple duty cycle mapping) *accurately" for 3 different boost levels.

If you want a boost control of, say, 1.8bar there needs to be an accurate table for duty cycle requirements for 1.7; 1.8 & 1.9 bar.

The Open loop system for 1.8 bar then uses this table as an initial target duty, and then also uses the table as a bracketing system to calculate the correction values to achieve a feedback controlled 1.8 bar so that it doesn't overshoot or undershoot when adding extra random or uncalculated duty to ramp up, for instance, from 1.75 to 1.8...

Hope that makes sense. It is a good system, but just needs the understanding of how it works.
__________________
Je cherche l'orgasme d'auto
J'ai trouve l'orgasme d'auto
C'est une evo IX bleu par le Rountree

***Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon***
//// Do as you OUGHT, not as you WANT ////
Rampant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2017, 07:03   #18
Cryptwalk
Moderator
 
Cryptwalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Manchester
Car: Cpp built Evo V1 Extreme No7 & a stroker red 7
My Car
Posts: 12,735
Send a message via MSN to Cryptwalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampant View Post
The thing about the Link boost control is you can't just ask it for an open loop (active feedback loop) without setting up the closed loop properly first.

You need to map the boost on closed loop (simple duty cycle mapping) *accurately" for 3 different boost levels.

If you want a boost control of, say, 1.8bar there needs to be an accurate table for duty cycle requirements for 1.7; 1.8 & 1.9 bar.

The Open loop system for 1.8 bar then uses this table as an initial target duty, and then also uses the table as a bracketing system to calculate the correction values to achieve a feedback controlled 1.8 bar so that it doesn't overshoot or undershoot when adding extra random or uncalculated duty to ramp up, for instance, from 1.75 to 1.8...

Hope that makes sense. It is a good system, but just needs the understanding of how it works.
Yeah I know what you're saying.. Its so much better now as it is, I think I'll leave it on closed loop passive..

I have 100% faith in the tuner, sure he would of done what you're saying, he's done loads of link (amongst others) over many years and my car is the first to suffer like this.

I have 3 different switchable boost levels/maps on the car in case it's wet etc 1,1.5 and 2.2 so sure he set it up on 3 levels.
Cryptwalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2017, 07:37   #19
Ads9
Senior User
 
Ads9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Gatwick
Car: EVO IX FQ320, Honda Fireblade & Nissan Navara
My Car
Posts: 1,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbn1979 View Post
How come you want to go open loop boost control?
I was thinking the same- I believe Mark means he has Open loop and wants Closed loop.

FWIW I'm really pleased with my Link, live mapping and logging are significant improvements over stock. The knock control, like everything else in the ECU is fully tunable and as with many things in life it will only be as good as the person setting it all up.

My opinion is that once internals are changed (forged, bored, stroked,etc) standalone/ aftermarket is needed to realise the engines potential. The standard ECU with a Tephra ROM is still very good but I believe is better suited to a stock engine with bolt-ons.

Hope that helps the OP with the choice
Ads9 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ads9 For This Useful Post:
Mita (19-05-2017), Rampant (19-05-2017), tazzi (19-05-2017)
Old 19-05-2017, 09:42   #20
sbn1979
Hi
 
sbn1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wednesbury and East Yorkshire
Car: Evo 6 Tommi Mak
My Car
Posts: 7,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ads9 View Post
I was thinking the same- I believe Mark means he has Open loop and wants Closed loop.

FWIW I'm really pleased with my Link, live mapping and logging are significant improvements over stock. The knock control, like everything else in the ECU is fully tunable and as with many things in life it will only be as good as the person setting it all up.

My opinion is that once internals are changed (forged, bored, stroked,etc) standalone/ aftermarket is needed to realise the engines potential. The standard ECU with a Tephra ROM is still very good but I believe is better suited to a stock engine with bolt-ons.

Hope that helps the OP with the choice
Yeah I think their may be a bit of confusion happening
You can set the link up in any format you want, open loop, open loop passive or closed loop and yes ive heard about the closed loop issue which is to be patched soon iirc, atmospheric compensations work in all setups of boost control
sbn1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sbn1979 For This Useful Post:
Ads9 (19-05-2017), Rampant (19-05-2017)
Old 19-05-2017, 09:56   #21
Rampant
Profound thinker
 
Rampant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Orbit pattern - Low block 3
Car: IX FQ-320: GT1s, COP, Rods, LinkG4+, MR lip & has the devil in it (& 996 C4S: exhaust)
My Car
Posts: 5,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ads9 View Post
I was thinking the same- I believe Mark means he has Open loop and wants Closed loop.

FWIW I'm really pleased with my Link, live mapping and logging are significant improvements over stock. The knock control, like everything else in the ECU is fully tunable and as with many things in life it will only be as good as the person setting it all up.

My opinion is that once internals are changed (forged, bored, stroked,etc) standalone/ aftermarket is needed to realise the engines potential. The standard ECU with a Tephra ROM is still very good but I believe is better suited to a stock engine with bolt-ons.

Hope that helps the OP with the choice

Yes you're quite right, I got them mixed up and didn't realise the basic error.

Thanks for putting me right.

Mark H
__________________
Je cherche l'orgasme d'auto
J'ai trouve l'orgasme d'auto
C'est une evo IX bleu par le Rountree

***Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon***
//// Do as you OUGHT, not as you WANT ////
Rampant is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rampant For This Useful Post:
Ads9 (19-05-2017), sbn1979 (19-05-2017)
Old 04-07-2017, 12:31   #22
tazzi
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 565
Need to make a decision.

Need to make a decision as car is going in in a couple of weeks. Do I get my standard ecu remapped or go with the link that Norris is highly recommending.
Does it justify the extra £1650 over getting the standard ecu done??
Help!!!

I mean is it set up in such a way that if there is even the slightest thing going wrong the engine will go into limp mode so no damage is done! Will it make more power with the link then it would with the standard one??
__________________
Evo 9 gt!
tazzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 13:35   #23
Aidy
Jesus built my car
 
Aidy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Garden of England (by the compost heap)
Car: Yellow EVO X
My Car
Posts: 37,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzi View Post
Need to make a decision as car is going in in a couple of weeks. Do I get my standard ecu remapped or go with the link that Norris is highly recommending.
Does it justify the extra £1650 over getting the standard ecu done??
Help!!!

I mean is it set up in such a way that if there is even the slightest thing going wrong the engine will go into limp mode so no damage is done! Will it make more power with the link then it would with the standard one??
If Norris is highly recommending it can't you ask him why? If he's asking you to spend an extra £1650 then I'd assume he also has some reasoning to back that up.
Aidy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 13:40   #24
Mita
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,597
Make more money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidy View Post
If Norris is highly recommending it can't you ask him why? If he's asking you to spend an extra £1650 then I'd assume he also has some reasoning to back that up.
Mita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 13:41   #25
Mita
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,597
Joking aside as Aidy has said youre best speaking to the man who's recommending it.
Mita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 14:02   #26
tazzi
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidy View Post
If Norris is highly recommending it can't you ask him why? If he's asking you to spend an extra £1650 then I'd assume he also has some reasoning to back that up.
I have. Said things such as phantom knock are picked up. Also each press of the throttle using standard ecu could vary 20-30 bhp. I want to see someone that has made the change as a customer and get there feedback.
__________________
Evo 9 gt!
tazzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 14:06   #27
Mita
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,597
There's a huge divide on this subject, and opinions are very much split. Might possibly be something that won't yield a definitive answer.
Mita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 14:26   #28
kikiturbo
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Croatia
Car: EVO 9 GSR
My Car
Posts: 1,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzi View Post
Need to make a decision as car is going in in a couple of weeks. Do I get my standard ecu remapped or go with the link that Norris is highly recommending.
road car / race car / engine spec ?
kikiturbo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kikiturbo For This Useful Post:
grants (04-07-2017)
Old 04-07-2017, 15:23   #29
tazzi
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
road car / race car / engine spec ?
Road car.
Running 390hp 360 torque with hybirid 20g turbo
Going in for a
rod job
Arp studs
Uprated head gasket
1000cc injectors
New clutch
Remap of standard ecu...or going for a link!
__________________
Evo 9 gt!
tazzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2017, 15:31   #30
Madevelopments
Senior User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Buckinghamshire
Car: Evo 6 under construction
Posts: 7,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzi View Post
Need to make a decision as car is going in in a couple of weeks. Do I get my standard ecu remapped or go with the link that Norris is highly recommending.
Does it justify the extra £1650 over getting the standard ecu done??
Help!!!

I mean is it set up in such a way that if there is even the slightest thing going wrong the engine will go into limp mode so no damage is done! Will it make more power with the link then it would with the standard one??
No it won't for that you need to add sensors and added cost.
The basic set up for that ecu will mean the possibility of putting rev and boost limits for water temp and a noise limit for knock. None of the other functions would be working unless extra sensors are added.
You can blow a engine as easy on either ecu it's down to the mapper to decide how risky or how safe the engine is. Remember max power is not the safest way to map a engine but you can also swing it the other way and damage a engine if you think you made it safe by flooding it with fuel.

Mark
__________________
MADevelopments

Builders of the winning Time Attack 2007 Club Class car

For all your servicing, race preparation engine conversions, suspension and 4 wheel alignment.

07768 356204
01491 411139
www.madevelopments.com

Medmenham NR Marlow Bucks SL7 2TA
Emtron Engine Management UK Distributor
Vipec Mapping
Autronic UK Distributor
Ecutek mapping
CP pistons Stockist
Carrilo Con Rods
Injector dynamics stockist
Ohlins stockist
Madevelopments is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Madevelopments For This Useful Post:
tazzi (04-07-2017)
Mitsubishi Lancer Register
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.