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First time tuning, is fitting a new ebc too much?

3K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  D1andonlyantman 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone. For a while I've been getting everything ready to look at and possibly modify my map. I've had evoscan, ecuflash etc for a while now (doing practice logs and looking at what info it gave me, looking at roms etc) and just today I finally wired in my wideband which seems to be working fine. I'm pretty much ready to map. Last week when re-fitting my turbo (long story) I accidentally split the line from the turbo that goes to the actuator and boost controller. I binned it and replaced it, no worries, without realising it had a restrictor pill in it to limit pressure to the actuator.... Well now I'm only seeing 1 bar until 4800rpm and then it creeps up to 1.4 -1.5 by redline. i was seeing up to 1.9 on my gauge before. now my dilemma is that I've got an ebc I could fit myself, and ive read a lot and hassled some people in the know with my noobish questions, and I think I've got half a clue on what to do, but is lowering the wgdc and then slowly building it back up to the correct boost level risky for my first tuning task? I could just buy another hose with a restrictor pill and slowly get to grips with it all before I fit the ebc, or should I just grab the bull by the horns, lower the wgdc, do a pull and go from there?

Sorry for the essay and thanks for any insight
 
#4 ·
That's better than no advice, so thanks. So if I lower the wgdc down to around 50, zero out the error correction so it doesn't meddle, and then do a few low throttle pulls while keeping a close eye on the boost, and slowly build up the wgdc until ive got a good boost curve, and then look at sorting my Boost desired engine load and load offset, am I going to nuke anything? If you've got 5 or 10 minutes to quickly write up how to switch from standard to 3port, I'm all ears! Doesn't have to be noob friendly, just what you would do. Like i said, I read a lot and have a genuine interest in this sort of stuff. I'm not just some idiot who wants to map their car for bragging rights

Thanks
 
#6 ·
Ok cool, thanks. While I've got your attention, I done a log the other day to test the afr, and it all looks good to me. am I right in thinking that lowering my boost won't affect the afr, it will just make me see less load so therefore not reach the higher end of the fuelling table it used to, not affecting afr? My initial assumption when I first started looking into this was that if you add more boost YOU need to add more fuel, but is it more accurate to say that if you add more boost you reach higher load, so as long as the map is good up there it will add the right amount of fuel? And the same on the flip side, lower the boost, less load, simply doesn't go to the top end of the map? Hopefully that makes sense
 
#7 ·
Lowering or raising boost will affect AFR. You are right saying higher boost will raise load and will require more fuel but load isn't solely based of AFR but that's for another time.
How raising and lowering boost affects AFR will depend on how the fuel table has been mapped.
 
#8 ·
its all relevant???? more or less boost means more or less air so it will need the relevant amount of fuel to compensate. the more boost will obviously get higher load as its using more air and its the same with your ignition table. if you are unsure run zero boost so its at actuator pressure roughly .8 bar do a full throttle run watching afr's ( i highly doubt it will be lean but be safe ) and also constantly checking for det. if its all good slowly increase boost adjusting the fuelling as it needs it and dont run more than 1.8 bar. once your done then start on the ign
 
#9 ·
Yeah i think we're on the same page. All I was saying is that more boost equals more air/load, so as long as the cells at that point are telling the ecu to add the right amount of fuel, it's all good? Drop the boost and it will have less air/load, so again, as long as the cells at that point are saying to add the right amount of fuel then there won't be a problem. Hypothetically let's say im running 1.8 bar. I decide that's too much for my rods and don't want to risk it. Could I just wind back the wgdc settings a bit, adjust the error correction and desired engine load and then it's basically done. The fuelling requirements at the different load and rpm wouldn't have changed, all I've done is reduce the boost and therefore load?
 
#10 ·
Personally I wouldn't bother with an external boost controller, I believe it's better to keep the engine control integrated.
There's one way to learn, make small changes and see the effect. Worst case you make the change back to what it was. For example if you adjust the wgdc and start to accelerate and see the boost over shoot just back off, adjust and try again. Have you had a read of Merlins Guide- it's on the Evoscan website and will either tell you a load of stuff you don't already know, or reinforce what you do.
I'm not trying to play down the pro mappers, there is a hell of a lot I don't knows but there used to be quite a big geekmapping community within the MLR whereas now the stock answer seems to be "take it to a specialist". I've thoroughly enjoyed mapping mine and my attitude is that if it goes bang I'd rather blame myself than someone else! Ye haw!
 
#11 ·
Yeah, I've actually had a copy of Merlins pdf printed for ease of reading, and ive watched the hours of ecuflash tutorial on YouTube. Also found another good thread on evom that covered some stuff that Merlin and the tutorial didn't. All in all id say I've got a fair idea of how it all works but there are a few bits that I still don't fully understand. I would've liked to have been able to leave it on standard boost control and slowly build up to all this, making small changes and seeing first hand what happens, but now I'm in the situation where it's either buy a new little hose will the pill or just bung on the new ebc and carefully get the boost back to where it should be. I think I'll just do it and be extremely careful with the throttle until I'm confident the settings won't cause any damage. Then make very small adjustments like you said. Plus it will be a lot easier to get advice when I have real logs and tables to show, rather than asking hypothetical questions
 
#12 ·
I think boost controllers are the way to go, I've had 3 ports controlled by the ecu nowhere near as good as having a decent boost controller set up properly ( thanks john FCM shamesless plug lol) the car pulls so much harder and from lower revs really makes a massive difference.
 
#16 ·
Lol 1.8 bar as john said is the sweet spot that's what he mapped mine to and it goes really well, I've had around 10 evos since 2005 and a boost controller is a must for me after trying other setups, i think a lot of tuners don't like ebc's because they take extra time to set up when they can just fit the solenoid and tell the ecu what pressure to run.
 
#17 ·
What is it that you're trying to achieve?

If running stock boost and it's tuned properly without any silly mods (it's 100% stock) then turning up the boost won't affect AFRs. To the point where the injectors or pump get maxed out or nearly maxed.
That's why you log IDC.
But the numbers are always wrong anyway, they usually read about 20% high.


When you turn up the boost, then at some point it'll start to knock.
That's why you log knock.
The knock sensor will pick it up, the ECU will protect the engine by reducing boost, adding fuel and pull timing back.

Once you've overcome the factory boost control circuit, you've eliminated the first stage in engine protection.
If your injectors are also maxed out, you've also lost the second stage of engine protection.

So?
Is ECU controlled boost better or is external boost control better?
 
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#19 ·
some good points made about engine safety, Modern boost controllers have much better built in safety features these days they will retard the boost and tell you when it goes over what it is set at, and you don't get that horrible overboost break your neck feature you do with the standard control lol, some controllers you can set the boost for each gear, best thing to do is speak to some tuners ive had cars mapped by fcm, Norris designs, powerstation, and that's just the evos I've had with some subarus tuned elsewhere aswell and never had any advice about going back to stock boost control from any of them.
 
#21 ·
As with most things in life, there is rarely a right or wrong answer on this as there are other factors in play.

My understanding is that EBC's were more applicable when only part of the ECU map could be accessed; changing the onboard boost control wasn't possible. That's not the case with the Evo now, although the caveat with that is the ECU (if pre Evo 9) doesn't monitor boost pressure directly without an SD conversion. If sticking with MAF then maybe there is an argument for an EBC.

The biggest advantage of having the boost control integrated is that there is no chance of somebody fiddling with the boost controller and the engine seeing way more than it should.
If going aftermarket ECU then I really can't see any good reason for having an EBC due to the protections and control you can apply, but again you'd most likely be running SD with a MAP sensor.

Hope that's helped to confuse you even more! :lol:

Maybe make changes backwards to the map, i.e. reduce boost and see how you get on. It's a shame there aren't so many geek mapping now as it is nice to have someone holding your hand. If you're ever in the Gatwick area I'd be happy to help, although I don't profess to be an expert and have more experience on the Link platform :smthumbup
 
#22 · (Edited)
All good info there and some of it confirmed what I already thought, and that can't be a bad thing! As i said, this sudden plunge to ebc wasn't deliberate, I split the standard hose with the restrictor pill so it makes sense to me to put on the ebc I have sitting in the cupboard rather than get another hose.

I've had some help from some good people, and with the guides I've read/watched etc, i think I've got a pretty good understanding of the basics. One thing that I still cannot figure out is boost desired engine load. As i understand It, that's what the ecu cross references with my actual load so that it can make adjustments to the wgdc to stop over(or under)boosting? If thats correct and i need that table to match the load I'm seeing in my logs, why is the desired engine load table in % and not load values? Other than that i think I've got half an idea how it all works but I'm kinda stuck here tbh.

Ok, just found out that despite there being a % sign beside the column, that is the actual load figure. I have spent hours trying to figure out how a percentage could relate to my load!
 
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