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Old 12-02-2017, 17:51   #16
4g638
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Removing the oem rear spoiler will change nothing in the way the car handles, apart from the exception of losing that insignificant amount of downforce at the rear end of the car you gain with it on, after 200+ km per hour, which actually affects nothing. Measuring the kg of downforce (aerodynamic thrust force), under certain conditions and measuring equipment will show that there is a certain respectable amount created, which is though not enough to affect and make any significant difference to the evo's stability.
If you wish to aid the rear spoiler in its downforce distribution, add a vortex generator on the rear end of the roof of the car.



Now on the other hand, if you do not know how to improve the car's suspension setup and handling, go to someone who does to sort it out for you. Changing the front springs alone, reducing ride height, thus the shock absorber's characteristics, travel/bound and rebound mainly, will add an over-steer and a "lose" end effect to the car's handling.




If you want to improve the handling for the road, use a set of quality lowering springs, thus improving the relationship between the car's center of gravity and the road surface, designed in relation to ( coil wire diameter, material, overall length) the oem shock absorber (in turns designed in relation to the type and amount of un-sprung mass it is carrying), on slightly harder rates, and a good alignment adjustment of the oem suspension setup.







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Last edited by 4g638; 12-02-2017 at 18:18.. Reason: typo
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Old 12-02-2017, 18:17   #17
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Originally Posted by 4g638 View Post
Changing the front springs alone, reducing ride height, thus the shock absorber's characteristics, travel/bound and rebound mainly, will add an over-steer and a "lose" end effect to the car's handling.

Marios

actually, a set of lowering springs on front alone will probably bring understeer..
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Old 12-02-2017, 18:22   #18
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Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
actually, a set of lowering springs on front alone will probably bring understeer..

No it won't. What I say is after test and trial, I never rely just on the theory/ science behind anything, and even that in this case states in favor of over-steer. In a simple sentence, there is negative camber change.






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Old 12-02-2017, 19:32   #19
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Err, where's Rich when you need him
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Old 12-02-2017, 19:38   #20
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Originally Posted by 4g638 View Post
No it won't. What I say is after test and trial, I never rely just on the theory/ science behind anything, and even that in this case states in favor of over-steer. In a simple sentence, there is negative camber change.






Marios
plot wheel travel vs camber, choose a point with a lowered car, re set the camber so that you have something that is ok to drive with, then see what happens in bump.. ( I know because I have that data)

also, having stiffer springs in front usually brings understeer..

the answer to the OP, dont mix various sets of springs unless you can afford to do it over and over again..
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Old 12-02-2017, 20:52   #21
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Wow, so much negativity. Fair play to you all.

It never ceases to amaze me that a person cannot simply ask a question without being labelled a "tool" or being told to step away from Evo ownership - to which I say fűšk you both.

Also fully aware Mitsubishi invested millions in r&d on the Evo platform - for rallying.
One oft needs a thick skin around here
You will sift out the valued replies from ze dead wood no doubt !
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Old 13-02-2017, 00:35   #22
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Originally Posted by kikiturbo View Post
plot wheel travel vs camber, choose a point with a lowered car, re set the camber so that you have something that is ok to drive with, then see what happens in bump.. ( I know because I have that data)

also, having stiffer springs in front usually brings understeer..

the answer to the OP, dont mix various sets of springs unless you can afford to do it over and over again..



Firstly to correct camber properly you need camber adjustable top mounts, the o.p was about installing only front lower springs, and I replied to that. Strut travel (bound and rebound) will be ok if he uses moderate rates springs designed for the oem bilsteins, there is nothing else to see about that.


Secondly you are wrong, lowering the front of the car alone, no matter what the rates of the springs are, will give the effect of oversteer and "lose" end as I said earlier, and even if the o.p said that he would also use adjustable top mounts along with the springs, the car would still feel and be unstable on the road.

As I said O.P, use a set, that's four lowering springs not two, of good quality designed for the oem bilsteins, what you want to do as per your question will have the effect I posted.



I also have collected data from my personal tests on this and they say what I just posted. Try your posts to someone who is ignorant, although you should not as it is misinformation, with suspension setups, I've dealt with these for the past 25 years, on bikes and cars.


I run an 800bhp evo on springs and bilsteins revalved to my spec along with the alignment setup to suit my needs and the car could not be more planted to the road than what it already is.


Here is a link to you, the o.p, and everyone who is interested on oversteer vs understeer.

http://www.morpca.org/drivers-educat...eer-oversteer/


That's all I had to say on this, boost on!







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Last edited by 4g638; 13-02-2017 at 01:28.. Reason: typo
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Old 13-02-2017, 08:44   #23
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Wasn't the 9 RS a little slower despite being lighter round track because of the lack of rear spoiler? I know it's a different model but must do something.

Last edited by Ben_r1; 13-02-2017 at 08:46..
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Old 13-02-2017, 12:19   #24
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Originally Posted by 4g638 View Post
Removing the oem rear spoiler will change nothing in the way the car handles, apart from the exception of losing that insignificant amount of downforce at the rear end of the car you gain with it on, after 200+ km per hour, which actually affects nothing. Measuring the kg of downforce (aerodynamic thrust force), under certain conditions and measuring equipment will show that there is a certain respectable amount created, which is though not enough to affect and make any significant difference to the evo's stability.
If you wish to aid the rear spoiler in its downforce distribution, add a vortex generator on the rear end of the roof of the car.
So, in your opinion the rear spoiler doesn't effect the Evo's handling or stability, but then you have mentioned aiding the spoiler with a vortex generator??

Marios, you speak about these things like you are an authority on them, yet you have had no experience, or any qualifications on the subject. (And this is plainly obvious by those who have) All you do is try to justify it by telling everyone you have 25 years experience in everything you speak about.

You are basically a menace on this forum with your continual posting of mis-information and utter rubbish.
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Old 13-02-2017, 12:28   #25
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He is entertaining though Clive

I must confess, performance aside I think they look hideous without a spoiler.
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Old 13-02-2017, 12:31   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejabrod View Post
So two questions:

What is the impact on handling of removing the rear spoiler on an Evo VII. Mainly day-to-day driving, a few blasts here and there and maybe 6x300mile (x2) motorway trips a year? (at times topping 120 mph)

Also, what impact on handling would having lowering springs (eibach) on the front (bilstein B6) and standard springs (std shocks) on the rear?

Thanks
Have a watch



Here's what happened with RichW removed his spoiler at a 30-130 event.


Edit - just saw that Chris beat me to it!

Last edited by kins; 13-02-2017 at 12:36..
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Old 13-02-2017, 14:09   #27
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Wow what speed was that spin at? What provoked it?
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Old 13-02-2017, 14:14   #28
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Originally Posted by Clivew View Post
So, in your opinion the rear spoiler doesn't effect the Evo's handling or stability, but then you have mentioned aiding the spoiler with a vortex generator??

Marios, you speak about these things like you are an authority on them, yet you have had no experience, or any qualifications on the subject. (And this is plainly obvious by those who have) All you do is try to justify it by telling everyone you have 25 years experience in everything you speak about.

You are basically a menace on this forum with your continual posting of mis-information and utter rubbish.



Nobody forced you to read or do what I say, and I am definitely more than an authority on the things I post than you or any of the so called "experts" on here.


The vortex generator will aid the rear wing in it's distribution of downforce and it is the only thing that can be added as an aid, unless someone is willing to seriously add true redesigned parts to the body of the car that actually do create significant amounts of downforce. As a reference point on downforce, one can examine the tsukuba i.e time attack cars. Even with the aid of the vortex generator the amount of downforce created will not be enough to affect things, but it is a step towards the right direction.




Clive all I know is that you are a forum bitch and nothing more than that. You only follow my threads and others trying diminishing bull**** comments because people do not agree with you and you would like to seem like a knowlegdable person, who in fact knows **** all about things, apart from a few gearboxes you re-builded and you consider that something lol. Or should I remind you of a pm you managed to send me after controlling you ego some years back asking for advice on what cams, compression ratio, to use with the hks 7064r kai and whether to lubricate it from the head or not, and how much power to expect, etc.


I've done 260+ km/h without the spoiler on, with no ill-effects whatsoever.


Yes I do have 25 years on working on cars and bikes whether you like or not, or is there a problem with that also?




I would again advise you not to read my posts since you do not like them, but as bitch that you are you won't restrain yourself from that.




Here is a video regarding the spoiler just as a reference point : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGv02ZJjkyU



Another : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRvRUaWSvbM








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Old 13-02-2017, 17:09   #29
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I am definitely more than an authority on the things I post than you or any of the so called "experts" on here.
You see, all you ever do is post BS replies about what an expert you are about everything, but never, ever show any proof of any of your expertise. No qualifications, no proof of any car builds, no proof of any lap times, or 1/4 times, or anything what so ever. Only your self proclaimed expertise.

Strange, how lots of people on this forum show all the things they do with proof of it, yet you profess they know nothing, and you know everything.

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Clive all I know is that you are a forum bitch and nothing more than that. You only follow my threads and others trying diminishing bull**** comments because people do not agree with you and you would like to seem like a knowlegdable person, who in fact knows **** all about things, apart from a few gearboxes you re-builded and you consider that something lol.
Here we go again. Yes, that's right, I know nothing (even though I have 30 years experience in the aerospace industry with numerous qualifications). Funny that I actually show proof of my abilities on here, and in other ways, (the same as lots of others), but you, not a thing. You are just a very sad individual with physcological issues.
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Old 13-02-2017, 17:14   #30
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Wow what speed was that spin at? What provoked it?
Rear spoiler wasn't fitted and Rich throttled off to slow down.


But according to Marios, they don't do anything anyway.
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